2Ghz Powerbook

[rabidz7]

I have run my early 05 17in at 2.08 or 2.17. Was unstable.

I have a DLSD. It has a usual PPC7447 but totally different motherboard config. It has resistor settings for 200MHz bus speed on front of the board according to the schematics. Your Screens shot shows the busses at 133mhz. I wonder if this is an error. I see the PLL config resistors near the CPU. Will check the schematic to see what multiplier it corresponds to. If the resistors are at the stock 10x bus speedconfig, the bus has been raised.

edit: bus is clocked.
Two pins set to 0 in PLL config. Through process of elimination, that leaves 10x multiplier. 10 x 200 is 2ghz.

Multiplier
All multiplier settings appear to be 10K-Ohm

..................0...........1
PLL0 -> R3721+R3720

PLL1 -> R3723+R3722

PLL2 -> R3725+R3724

PLL3 -> R3727+R3726

PLL4 -> R3729+R3728

PLL5 -> R3731+R3730

NOTE: PLL5 is only for diagnostic use. Do not set it to anything other than 0. The PowerBook will not function properly with PLL5 set to 1.



Bus
All bus settings appear to be 10K-Ohm

....................0...........1
BOM0 -> R2305+R2304

BOM1 -> R2307+R2306

BOM2 -> R2309+R2308

BOM3 -> R2311+R2310

When the resistor on the 0 side of a BOM jumped, the BOM is set to 0. When the resistor on the 1 side of a BOM jumped, the BOM is set to 1. If both the 0 side and 1 side is jumped the PowerBook will not function properly.

Voltage
All voltage pins are 470K-Ohm.

...............0..........1
D0 -> R3988+R3989

D1 -> R3986+R3987

D2 -> R3984+R3985

D3 -> R3982+R3983

D4 -> R3980+R3981

When only the resistor on the left of the chart is jumped, the pin is set to 0. When the only resistor on the right side of the chart is jumped, the pin is set to 1. Example: D4 is set to 0 if only R3980 is jumped. D4 is set to 1 if only R398 is jumped.

 

[Hack5190]

Want to learn how to overclock every PowerPC mac? See my site at www.starpc.us

Site down or just really busy? Can't access it using TFF or Safari from my PowerBook G4

 

[Dronecatcher]

Agreed, the briefly posted photo looks fake - especially with the counterfeiter's friend, out of range auto-focus, covering up any poor Photoshop skills.
However, the comparison photos of 7448 are 2008 chips - according to online info, the first 7448s rolled off production lines October 2005.

From my first posting of this guy's video, I'd assumed his Powerbook had the Daystar upgrade and the L2 wasn't identifying correctly.

I find it sad that someone feels the need to go to such elaborate lengths to fool a niche collection of enthusiasts.

 

[bunnspecial]

Agreed, the briefly posted photo looks fake - especially with the counterfeiter's friend, out of range auto-focus, covering up any poor Photoshop skills.
However, the comparison photos of 7448 are 2008 chips - according to online info, the first 7448s rolled off production lines October 2005.

I will add the technical docs on the 7448 that give the die size-note that it's my measured and reported value, not the obviously larger 7447A die

http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/823598/mpc7448_motorola-semiconductor.html?page=9#datasheet

This document is dated 2006.

 

[bunnspecial]

One last thing-I'd like to draw everyone's attention to EveryMac.com

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_1.67_17_hr.html

 

[Dronecatcher]

I think this might be the most relevant information I can find that answers your questions.

Edit: if it doesn't take you to the right part, it's under "Overview ... > System Software > Power Management".

Upon further reading, that power management info for the 17" DLSD is also contained in the developer info for the 1Ghz 17" model - in fact, the only reference thus far of a more intelligent power management as found on DLSD models is in the 7448 spec sheets.
It must be case that the 7447B implemented an undocumented version of the later power management found in the 7448 but Apple strangely chose to restrict it to DLSDs instead of allowing other 7447B Macs to use that feature.

 

[rabidz7]

Site down or just really busy? Can't access it using TFF or Safari from my PowerBook G4

∫een down fo long time.

 

[Xandros]

Upon further reading, that power management info for the 17" DLSD is also contained in the developer info for the 1Ghz 17" model - in fact, the only reference thus far of a more intelligent power management as found on DLSD models is in the 7448 spec sheets.
It must be case that the 7447B implemented an undocumented version of the later power management found in the 7448 but Apple strangely chose to restrict it to DLSDs instead of allowing other 7447B Macs to use that feature.

It's not really that strange if you think about it. Those PowerBook's were the last ever G4's Apple released, in October 2005. Apple had already announced they planned to switch to x86 architecture at the June '05 WWDC, so it's likely any R&D on new G4 and G5 models completely ceased after that if not before.

The improved power management might have resulted due to them planning to implement 7448 processors but because of the cessation of development they probably instead just decided to use up stock of the 7447's instead of carry on with the plan to bring in the new version of the CPU and as such other Mac G4's never saw the benefit from it.

Of course that's all purely speculation on my part but it seems pretty logical if you ask me.

 

[Dronecatcher]

It's not really that strange if you think about it. Those PowerBook's were the last ever G4's Apple released, in October 2005. Apple had already announced they planned to switch to x86 architecture at the June '05 WWDC, so it's likely any R&D on new G4 and G5 models completely ceased after that if not before.

The improved power management might have resulted due to them planning to implement 7448 processors but because of the cessation of development they probably instead just decided to use up stock of the 7447's instead of carry on with the plan to bring in the new version of the CPU and as such other Mac G4's never saw the benefit from it.

Of course that's all purely speculation on my part but it seems pretty logical if you ask me.

I agree but the iBooks released in July 2005, which according to Open Firmware derived information, have the same CPU, had standard power management.
If we were to deduce Apple ceased PPC development after the June announcement, where did the DLSD CPUs advanced power management come from?
I'm not digging for some cloak and dagger mystery at Apple, I'd just like to know the how and why of that unique power management on the DLSD, that as we know, promptly disappeared with the G5.

 

[Xandros]

Simple answer to that is, the iBook dev team finalised their design before the PowerBook team, which stands to reason given it came out around three months before the PowerBook did. I'd wager that the enhancements to the power management came about after the final iBook model was already finished and Apple probably brought down the hammer before the PowerBook had been finalised, so it got the new power management, but not the 7448. As for the G5's, well they were a whole different kettle of fish to the G4 in terms of power and thermals so they probably needed something else entirely to sort that out. They did after all alter the PMU in 2004 for th G5 Macs to take on a bigger role and renamed it the SMU (and that went on to become the SMC in intel Macs), maybe that had something to do with the feature not being in G5's of the time as it wasn't needed.

Anyway like I say pure speculation on my part, but I really don't think at this late stage you'll ever find out exactly why unless you can locate an Apple engineer responsible for the design and poke him with a stick until he tells you. Probably best to just accept it as it is; consigned to the history books as one of those decisions Apple made that doesn't make any bloody sense.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Probably best to just accept it as it is; consigned to the history books as one of those decisions Apple made that doesn't make any bloody sense.

Maybe I'm reading in too much to the "advanced power management" angle - after all, in effect it could be simply be the Processor Performance option had been removed and the Powerbook is always set to Automatic?
Regardless, it's been fun learning more about the G4 than I previously knew and given it's performance capability against a G5 at the same speed, it seems obvious the G5 never got anywhere near it's true potential.

 

[Hack5190]

∫een down fo long time.

As I suspected

Thanks for removing it from your signature.

 

[California]

Honestly, I wish I'd been into PPC Macs when Daystar was still doing this. I'd send one in-granted I know it's no longer financially practical, but I've wasted money on worse things.

I have the same processor-a 2ghz 7448-in a tower and it's amazingly fast. You get 1mb of full speed on-die L2, which perks these up an amazing amount. Mine is fast in a Digital Audio with it 133mhz FSB...I can only imagine what the much faster DLSD architecture would do.

Even more importantly in a laptop, the 7448 actually draws LESS power than the 7447A. The fastest 7447As I have are 1.8ghz(actually I think the Sonnets are 1.42s overclocked to 1.8) and they are HOT. The 7448 runs noticeably cooler. Of course, in a laptop this should also translate into better battery life.

The price for Daystar to upgrade was prohibitive. I had the 1.5ghz 12" PB and Daystar wanted 660 bucks or so to upgrade the 12" to 1.67ghz. It was a little bit more to upgrade the 15" and 17" to 2.0 or 2.1ghz as I recall.

There was a daystar disc that had some software that optimized performance... look around for it Bunnspecial... I think you have it.

 

[Hack5190]

There was a daystar disc that had some software that optimized performance... look around for it Bunnspecial... I think you have it.

I think almost every PowerPC user would like to try that software, but if you need a beta tester

 

[bunnspecial]

There was a daystar disc that had some software that optimized performance... look around for it Bunnspecial... I think you have it.

Thanks-now I have to go hunting!

Assuming I find it, I'll image and put it on the Garden

 

[mrchinchilla]

I'm not sure, but might it be among these?

 

[California]

I'm not sure, but might it be among these?

No it had a name ... something Gary at Daystar created to optimize performance on PPCs... Bunnspecial has the disc

Thanks-now I have to go hunting!

It's a redish/yellowish printed disc. Says Daystar and then the name of the optimizer software.
Assuming I find it, I'll image and put it on the Garden

I'm not sure, but might it be among these?

I didn't see it there. It had a name from Gary at Daystar. He was/is a great guy btw.

 

[Hack5190]

Thanks-now I have to go hunting!

Assuming I find it, I'll image and put it on the Garden

Please let us know if you post it. Thanks!

 

[rabidz7]

what happened to Daystar technologies? went under?

 

[bunnspecial]

No it had a name ... something Gary at Daystar created to optimize performance on PPCs... Bunnspecial has the disc

I found an "Xlr8 MACHspeed Control Disk"-is that it?

 

[Xandros]

what happened to Daystar technologies? went under?

Judging from what I'd seen of their website on web archive I was going to say they quietly shut up shop before 2012, then I came across a linkedin profile for Gary Dailey (presumably the same Gary people have mentioned in this thread earlier), and his profile states he was the CEO of Daystar until 2011. I suppose you could ask him if you want to know what happened.

Looks like the only remnants of Daystar exist as part of the spin off company XLR8 which still exists and Gary is a manager of, but these days they just make capture cards for Macs rather than the those MAChspeed upgrades Daystar used to sell.

 

[California]

I found an "Xlr8 MACHspeed Control Disk"-is that it?

Yes. put it in a PPC and watch what it does... I was never sure but I believe it was to optimize CPU
[doublepost=1466963620][/doublepost]

Judging from what I'd seen of their website on web archive I was going to say they quietly shut up shop before 2012, then I came across a linkedin profile for Gary Dailey (presumably the same Gary people have mentioned in this thread earlier), and his profile states he was the CEO of Daystar until 2011. I suppose you could ask him if you want to know what happened.

Looks like the only remnants of Daystar exist as part of the spin off company XLR8 which still exists and Gary is a manager of, but these days they just make capture cards for Macs rather than the those MAChspeed upgrades Daystar used to sell.

Gary of Daystar made the third party macs in the mid to late 90's, beige box, can't remember what they were called... I was bowled over when someone I knew owned one, had no idea it was a Mac in another box.

He is a very smart Mac guy. Apple made it hard for places like Daystar, I think.

 

[AphoticD]

Hopefully this matter has been settled, but here is some additional information on the physical differences between the 7447x series processors and the 7448.

First of all, I think it's prudent to first post a photograph of a 7448 processor. This particular processor is in a Newertech branded 2ghz upgrade.

View attachment 636925

I'll draw your attention to a couple of key points on this processor, one of which is manufacture date(2008) and also the particular shape of the 8 in 7448. In addition, look at the other markings on the processor, which identify the rated clock frequency and presumably other properties of the processor.

Note the location and size of the 7448 marking at the bottom of the package. It spans aproximately two of the surface mount components around the perimeter.

Another key consideration is both the aspect ratio and size of the die, as the 7448 was noted for being both smaller and more square than the 7447x.

View attachment 636926

View attachment 636927

Note that the 7448 is almost exactly 8mm wide, and slightly over 7mm tall.

Now, let's compare this to the 7447B. On cursory examination, one thing which stands out is that the 7447A marking on the package is almost entirely under one of the surface mount components.

Second, let's examine the size of the 7447B in my 17" DLSD.

View attachment 636928 View attachment 636929

Note that the width of the 7447B is virtually identical to the 7448 at 8mm, but the height is just a shade under 10cm. In other words, the 7447B is decidedly and noticeably rectangular.

Now, let's examine the photograph of the claimed "7448" in a DLSD that was posted briefly a few days ago.

View attachment 636930

I will point out a couple of anomalies with the claimed 7448 processor.

First of all, take a careful look at the die markings. Although the processor APPEARS to say 7448 on the die, note that the form of the "8" looks much more like the "B" on my 7447B as opposed to the "8" on my 7448. Otherwise, the die marking are virtually identical to the processor in my 17" DLSD, right down to the manufacture date. The die markings on the known 7448 are quite different.

Second, I'll again draw your attention to the position and relative size of the package marking relative to other surface mount components. It is more consistent with the arrangement seen on 7447x series processors.

Finally, again pay attention to the aspect ratio-the claimed 7448 has an aspect ratio in line with a 7447x processor, and not with a 7448.

I certainly invite @asaggynoodle to refute any points which I've made if he can do so factually.

I know this is over a year old but I just wanted to say great detective work @bunnspecial. This was an entertaining read!

Another indicator of the OP photo being fake is if you look closely, you can spot where Photoshop's clone tool has smoothed out the areas to the right of the so called "8". The film noise is not even in both of these areas and you can see a vertical repetition of the noise pattern on the upper label.

What a scammer! I wonder what else he has 'shopped for bragging rights. "A Saggy Noodle" perhaps?

 

[0248294]

I know this is over a year old but I just wanted to say great detective work @bunnspecial. This was an entertaining read!

Another indicator of the OP photo being fake is if you look closely, you can spot where Photoshop's clone tool has smoothed out the areas to the right of the so called "8". The film noise is not even in both of these areas and you can see a vertical repetition of the noise pattern on the upper label.

What a scammer! I wonder what else he has 'shopped for bragging rights. "A Saggy Noodle" perhaps?

The worst thing is that this scam, and internal papers that note the Apple engineers originally wanted to use 7448s, managed to convince EveryMac.com that some of the DLSD/HRs actually do have 7448s, which they put a note about on the DLSD in question's page underneath the CPU section. Thankfully, they have edited it, but now claim people discuss the processors in the DLSD/HR to be "bordering on the irrational" and still say "Perhaps there are more than one processor types used.", which is still false because Apple did not use the 7448 in any Mac, only CPU upgrade manufacturers/services did. That said, EveryMac can be spotty when it comes to CPU type anyways. Many of us noticed some other lists to have wrong CPU types, and they don't seem to really welcome corrections when it comes to that, so their notes on that specific specification on PowerPC Macs should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[AphoticD]

Yes, I was clearly misled by the listing on everymac, which is why I brought it up on the other thread!